The first permanent English American settlement, Jamestown, was only a success if we compare it to Roanoke, which as we recall disappeared. The popular theory is that maybe the colonials at Jamestown were completely unprepared and thus the colony failed. The attached links in google classroom offer an alternative theory.
After viewing only the 1st 14 minutes of the video (0:00 to 14:00) and reading the two links, respond as a comment to this prompt:
Does the evidence about the colony being sabotaged through poisoning appear convincing?
Share why or why not?
Reply to two others as is our practice with a quick question that the commenter can consider but will not answer. (ex. Do you think?... Have you considered?...)
I actually think that poison could be the reason or one of the reasons that Jamestown failed, the symptoms of arsenic poison align with the symptoms the colonists reported having. There was also a lot of political strife between the colonists. causing tension among them. This tension and ambition to be one of the high positions could've caused some colonists to poison the others.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree, poison is very likely the reason for the downfall of Jamestown. As you stated, “The symptoms of arsenic poisoning align with the symptoms of the colonists.” It is similar to seeing if some one died of suffocation, if the results align, like a compressed trachea, or stressed lungs, most likely mean they died from suffocation.
DeleteI agree. The chances that poison was responsible for the deaths of the colonialists are extremely high, and I believe the facts back it up as well.
DeleteEthan Lader
I like the reasoning you gave behind why poisoning makes sense. The fighting going on and the dislike that they received from others is a very strong reason why they may have been poisoned.
DeleteI agree, scientifically it makes sense (the symptoms) and the political tension also made sense.
DeleteI like that you pointed out that Spain is not the only culprit for arsenic poisoning; still, even a situation of sabotage from infighting, there would have likely been documents that pertain to such, right?
DeleteAlthough I disagree, you make good points. I am curious to know how high the political strife would need to be for people to start poison each other?
DeleteI agree with what you said. The poison seems to be the lead cause that is suspected. The evidence is convincing, but there is a chance that something else may have occured.
DeleteSakari
DeleteI do think its an interesting theory that the colonists starting poisoning each other because it sounds like a huge scandal even without much evidence haha, and I do also think that it's very likely that arsenic killed some of Jamestown.
I feel that the poison theory could be correct as it is surrounded by a plethora of facts, but it is interesting to consider what would cause them to consider such a possibility.
DeleteI agree with you. The evidence strongly indicates that the colony was poisoned.
DeleteThe evidence of the colony dying from poisoning is extremely convincing, this is especially evident in the writings of those who lived there. Many believe that they died from starvation; however, the symptoms reported through the writings closely match with the symptoms experienced through being poisoned. It is very hard to prove this evidence wrong because it is a firsthand source.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Since it was a firsthand source, it is hard looking back to be critical of its accuracy with what occurred in Jamestown.
DeleteEthan Lader
I also agree, the theory that the cause of death was poison makes more sense than starvation.
DeleteIt seems so crazy at first to think that the colonists could have been poisoned, but the evidence is really strong.
DeleteI agree, I think the firsthand accounts make the theory very convincing.
DeleteI believe that it is fairly likely that the colonialists died from poison, due to firsthand accounts from colonialists. Despite other theories including starvation, the theory that poison is responsible for the deaths of colonialists is backed up by its similarity to arsenic poison.
ReplyDeleteEthan Lader
I agree with this, the symptoms of the arsenic poison align with the symptoms the colonists were showing.
DeleteI agree, it makes sense because the colonists were reporting the symptoms that go along with this poison.
DeleteI believe that it is quite likely the colonists were poisoned rather than dying from starvation. All of the symptoms that the colonists had described were extremely similar to that of arsenic poisoning. The firsthand account of these symptoms are very hard to refute as they came right from the colonists, giving strong evidence to support poisoning.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. There is concrete evidence on how a lot of the colonists were not just starving to death, but how they may have been experiencing symptoms of arsenic poisoning right before their deaths. The fact that the colonists had given their firsthand accounts of the situation, as well as being backed up by modern excavations of the Jamestown colony, which provides us with the strong belief that the colony was poisoned.
DeleteI agree with what you propose. The point you made about it being hard to not believe the accounts of the colonists is spot-on, as it is some of the most important information that we can collect for a situation like this.
DeleteEvidence about the Jamestown colony being sabotaged through poisoning is fairly substantial, because the writing left behind from the early settlers depict a case different from the assumption that they had all just starved to death. These accounts also line up closely with the new excavation archaeologists have done in the Jamestown colony, where they had found new evidence to present the idea of how there may have been political strife among the colonists, leading to the cause of the poisonings. In additions, the read state that it is also thought that a Spanish spy was tainting the English, in order to get rid of their colonies. Various settlers were also experiencing symptoms that was similar to arsenic poisoning, which also provided further proof that the colony was being poisoned.
ReplyDeleteSakari
DeleteI for one found the spanish spy and political strife motives for poisoning very interesting, even if these weren't true. Arsenic poison is actually a very convincing explanation for what happened.
I agree that the Spanish could have been the cause of the poisoning, but I think that it was more the Natives who didn't want the Englih to end their way of life.
DeleteI think that the Jamestown colony was sabotaged by poison. The colonists firsthand reported the symptoms that they were experiencing which matches up with the symptoms for this poison. Also, there was tons of political tension in the air which would make sense that someone would want to sabotage.
ReplyDeleteI understand the theory you subscribe to, but have you considered that neither the articles nor the video provide evidence of Spain carrying out such an operation (other than the fact that Spain and England were rivals).
DeleteAs you laid out, Spain had the motive and the means to carry out this operation. After seeing this new information, it seems almost obvious that the settlers were poisoned with arsenic.
DeleteYes, I agree, there is so much scientific evidence that supports the fact that poison was a cause of death in the Jamestown colony.
DeleteThe Jamestown colonists were likely not poisoned. It they were, a major covert operation must have been carried out by Spain--but the articles and video provide no evidence for such activity. The colonists were suffering from a limited food supply, and as such, the symptoms reminiscent of arsenic poisoning could have come from a range of diseases taking advantage of the starved colonists' weakened immune systems. Additionally, considering the ongoing drought, starvation seems like a simpler answer than some major hidden scheme.
ReplyDeleteYou make fair points. I think it is possible the colonists were not poisoned, however I think there must be more to the story than starvation. The evidence points to a greater cause that led to the downfall of Jamestown.
DeleteThat is an interesting perspective that you bring to the table - we do not exactly know if the colonists were or were not poisoned, but there must've been some underlying issues than just one or the other. It could have also been a combination, or more details about the situation that we do not know about, that is causing the deaths of these colonists at Jamestown back then.
DeleteI agree with all of these points. I wonder how much evidence and what kind of evidence you would need to believe that poisoning was the cause of Jamestown's ruin?
DeleteWhile these arguments have merit to them, your first point isn't necessarily accurate. At a time where Jamestown could barely be considered a hamlet, It would be very easy to sneak into the colony, contaminate the food supply, and get out.
DeleteI find your points very interesting. I hadn't considered the evidence that must have been left behind by the people involved in the operation. Now that I think about there seem to be three possible solutions; either it was never orchestrated, the organization was done in person without any documents, or the evidence has been destroyed. Out of the three I think that the first is definitely the most likely. But there still could be evidence on this out there that we don't know about or the culprit could have been a small group of people who had no need for letters and the like.
DeleteExactly, with so many symptoms for arsenic poisoning it could be anything, and widespread diarrheal disease from a misplaced well during a drought+famine and surrounded by salty water seems like a very quick way to kill a lot of colonists.
DeleteThe evidence that Jamestown was sabotaged through poisoning is convincing. The symptoms that the colonists experienced were too severe to be considered starvation. The evidence proves that there must have been something else going on. Additionally, the political disruption at the time only further proves this theory. The long journey to Virginia caused disputes among men, who all wanted power. I think that it is highly possible these conflicting desires for power led to a sabotage, with the colony being poisoned.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Their symptoms were too severe to be any of the other ideas mentioned.
DeleteI agree as well, the symptoms suggest that this was not starvation. But we need to consider that maybe since they were sick, their accounts might not be the most accurate.
DeleteI am not convinced that the early colonists were poisoned. The article mentioned that Spain may have been the ones that poisoned the new colony because of political and power struggles, however, there is no evidence to support this, and there most likely never will be any hard evidence to support this. There were also so many other factors such as the drought, starvation, disease, as well as poor relationships with the Native Americans. There is not enough evidence for me to commit to believing in the theory that Jamestown failed because of poison, however I do not believe that their demise was simply due to unpreparedness.
ReplyDeleteThough I don't completely disagree with you – I do think it is a possibility that they were poisoned – I do agree that there is no evidence of it being Spain's fault. I also agree that it is unlikely that there will be concrete evidence of what happened.
DeleteI slightly disagree. There is evidence that shows that the colony could have been poisoned. This evidence isn't 100% concrete, but this evidence is compelling enough not to ignore. I don't think any theory will ever be backed by concrete evidence, but with the current evidence we have, I think it's fair to infer that the colony was poisoned.
DeleteI believe that the colonists most likely died from poisoning rather than starvation. This is because the writings left of those who lived there seems to display symptoms more alike to poisoning than starvation. The source is essentially the most important source one can have to comprehend what may have happened in Jamestown. This source has to be taken into account the most, so what ever is displayed there, would be the most believable, and what is displayed there, is information leading towards death by poisoning, not starvation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you with the fact that evidence on poisoning is more plentiful than that of starvation, evidence really weighs out on why its convincing this was the cause.
DeleteAfter viewing the video, it would appear that the colonists were poisoned, and this was what led to the fall of Jamestown. Spain, the entity that has the best reason to poison these people also has the means by which to carry this plan out. All of the variables align perfectly to suggest that the early English colonists in Jamestown were poisoned.
ReplyDeleteDefinetely, I like how you compared Jamestown to other, VERY successful Spanish colonies. It seems like the English had problems beyond starvation, and it is possible that poisoning was the cause.
DeleteExactly. The Spanish didn't want the English competing for their land, so they probably decided to wipe them out.
DeleteTo me, I think that the theory that the settlers were poisoned because famine does not seem like the it could be the only reason for such massive amounts of casualties. Upon further inspection on records from the time, we read vivid descriptions of physical ailments and illnesses that have been linked with arsenic poisoning. Such violent physical affliction could not only come from starvation. It is clear that there was something more serious at play, and poisoning seems to be a likely candadite.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Just looking at the evidence makes it clear that it had to have been poison.
DeleteI politely disagree, in that though a simple lack of calories might not cause these problems, it can leave you vulnerable to many other deficiencies and diseases. As well as this, arsenic has so many possible symptoms one of the main reasons it is used as a poison is that one could point to a huge number of diseases and claim poisoning(ex. Many had bloody stool, but that could easily just be a case of poor waste water management and a cholera/other outbreak).
DeleteSakari
ReplyDeleteI think the idea that the Jamestown settlers were poisoned (be it by either themselves or the Spanish) is a very interesting and promising idea, as who doesn't love a little murder mystery/spy noir? The symptoms of Arsenic poisoning and the reported symptoms of the settlers line up fairly well, so it's a likely cause, though no one will ever know if it's true or not, unless a diary entry of the culprit randomly appears. I don't think this was the sole cause of the end of Jamestown, but I do think it played a large role in it.
I agree with you that it was most likely a combination of factors, including poisoning, that caused the "starvation period". I also like your point about it being an interesting story/murder mystery!
DeleteI agree. There was no one reason for the fall of Jamestown and when looking at the issue we have to consider the complexity of the causes of death and accept that we will likely never know exactly how it all played out.
DeleteI do think that poison is a legitimate theory. The Spanish did not want the English to establish any colonies in the Americas. So many of the symptoms fit with Arsenic poisoning, that it had to at least been part of the cause of the starving time.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement and like how you made a connection to the spanish in your post.
DeleteThe argument about the colonists being poisoned is convincing. The firsthand accounts of the symptoms they experienced match those that are exhibited during arsenic poisoning. That being said, I am not completely convinced. There are other possibilities of what could have happened in Jamestown that are also likely.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the argument on poison being what sabatoged jamestown is convincing. That is because most of the symptoms recalled in the video point to no other than arsenic poisoning, this could've addeded on to the amount of deaths with the starving.
ReplyDeleteI definetely think that it was poison that killed the Colonists. The Navive Americans were probable quite mad that the English encroached on their land and now wanted help from them. It would have been super easy for the Natives to just pour some poison in the river to end the English threat to their culture. The symptoms that the English experienced were remarkably similar to those of a poisoning.
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting, but I'm not sure the native population would poison an entire river? I don't think that's entirely possible, especially if the river was everyone's collective water source. They also would have had to get the arsenic from Europeans. Do you think the Spanish had any involvement?
DeleteThe evidence is certainly interesting and warrants attention, but I don't think it's in any way conclusive. Obviously there were multiple factors at play, including Native American attacks, lack of food, and natural diseases, but they don't seem to account for all the deaths. Therefore poison is a plausible explanation for the symptoms experienced by the colonists and the rest of the deaths. Still, while the evidence points that way (and it would have been a brilliant solution on the part of the Spanish and/or Catholics) it is not enough to conclude anything and there may be further factors we have yet to consider.
ReplyDeleteI agree! Even if poison was one of the causes of their deaths, it couldn't have been the only one, right?
DeleteIt is a likely possibility that they were poisoned, but that isn't the most probable cause. Arsenic poisoning is notorious for being hard to diagnose, as they said in the video, it can cause virtually every symptom imaginable because of its wide reaching effects. Some may have been poisoned, given that they ate the rats which they laid out poison traps for, it is more likely that they were incredibly weak from little nutritious food and fell ill to a variety of infections and other ailments. The burying of bodies so quickly is yet more evidence for infection, and unsanitary conditions at the time could mean they were disposing of bodily waste in the river while retrieving water from a well nearby. One would also think that the Spanish would poison a specific common food and water source, so it would be obvious to the settlers that the people who ate or drank from there got sick while others didn't.
ReplyDeleteThe arsenic poisoning evidence seems convincing considering how many of the colonists' symptoms matched up with arsenic poisoning symptoms. Though, most likely it wasn't that alone. They say in the video that no one theory accounts for every death, so there were probably multiple reasons. It was most likely a deadly cocktail of disease, famine, and attacks from the Spanish/the Algonquin (which possibly includes arsenic poisoning.)
ReplyDeleteThe evidence of the colony dying from poisoning is extremely convincing. I believe this theory more than the starvation theory because of the symptoms reported through the writings closely match with the symptoms experienced through being poisoned. There were many things that could have caused for Jamestown to fail. Though I believe there is no concrete evidence to support any theory, I think the starvation one was the most compelling.
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ReplyDeleteThe theory of Jamestown dying from arsenic poisoning is very convincing, as the reported symptoms match symptoms of poisoning, along with the frantic burying of bodies suggesting that the corpses were contaminated.
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