We have read about President Jefferson's ideas about the role of government as well as his early policies as president. after reading the description of the nation's new capitol answer the question below:
Is Washington DC, as it is described in our readings, a match
with the type of nation President Jefferson desires?
As is our practice, answer the question using KEY TERMS in the comment section and then reply to the comments of two of your classmates.
Washington DC was a match with the type of nation President Jefferson desired. He wished for a localist farming society and did not want large industrialized cities. The capitol that Pierre L'Efant built was not conducive with the kind of nation that Jefferson wished to have, rendering it inhospitable and provincial. This was because Jefferson did not make any effort to elevate the status of Washington DC to a major city, as it didn't fit with his values and goals for the country.
ReplyDeleteI find it very interesting how you connect Pierre L'Efant's grand plans for the capitol with Jefferson's ideals; I hadn't considered that the inhospitable capitol was a result of these two things clashing, but it does make sense that it might have happened that way.
DeleteI didn't consider that the inhospitality of the nation's capital may have come as a result of L'Enfant and Jefferson's disagreements. Very interesting!
DeleteI agree, and I think maybe Jefferson's laid back approach may have gotten in the way of getting the capital he wanted.
DeleteThis is an interesting take on the matter, as an inshospitapal environment would make industrialism in Washington DC much harder to accomplish, thereby securing Jefferson what he wanted.
DeleteI agree, I think that Jefferson's laissez faire way of doing everything got in the way of what he wanted and the city's potential.
DeleteI agree. Given the laid back way that Jefferson tackled the situation, he was able to gain what he wanted in an unorthodox manner.
DeleteEthan Lader
I agree, i think it is a very interesting approach to contrast the ideals of Jefferson and Pierre.
DeleteSakari
I don't think it is. To me the capital of an agrarian civilization should be a small, prosperous, (somewhat) self sufficient farming settlement. The town should be efficient, comfortable, and practical but not flashy. This would reflect the honest localism that the Republicans valued. Instead they ended up with a provincial, inhospitable village that was avoided as much as possible. This was not a capitol of any great civilization, agrarian or not, and (aside from being decidedly not flashy) it didn't really match up with the Republican's values or their vision of America.
ReplyDeleteI find it very helpful and interesting how you outlined the values of the Republican town and paralleled it with the conditions in DC.
DeleteI agree. I think Pierre L'Enfant could've done better to construct D.C in a manner consistent with Jefferson's vision.
DeleteI like the way to outlined the ideals, and then explained how the republicans completely failed to achieve them.
DeleteAgreed, and beautifully said. The capital doesn't reflect the nation that Jefferson wanted and thought he had.
DeleteAgreed, I think the capitol is too big for what Jefferson was actually hoping for.
DeleteI really like the way you compared DC to the typical Republican town. This is extremely interesting.
DeleteI agree with this, Washington DC, by design, was inhospitable and not so great for what Jefferson thought it should represent, as the capital was more of a symbol that much else. It should be welcoming and hospitable, because that would be more symbolically agricultural, in my opinion.
DeleteIt was interesting how you outlined the Republican ideals and how they related to Washington D.C.
DeleteYes, I also agree that the agrarian values of the nation may matter slightly less when you and your administration are living in essentially swamp dormitories.
DeleteI agree. However, I believe that Pierre L’Enfants design was very positive looking back, given its strong characteristics that separated it by making it unique for America.
DeleteEthan Lader
Sakari
DeleteI agree, Pierre's design was most likely not what Jefferson had in mind
I don't think Pierre L'Enfant's Washington D.C lived up to Jefferson's standards. Jefferson wanted his nation to be agrarian, localist, and self-sufficient. As such, he probably wanted D.C to be agrarian, localist, and self-sufficient. While I'm sure he didn't expect the city to be poor or inhospitable, he probably didn't want it to be too snazzy. D.C did not line up with Jefferson's view of America.
ReplyDeleteI agree in that Jefferson liked the idea of an agrarian society, and I don't think DC lived up to that.
DeleteI agree. I don't think he liked either the Washington Pierre L'Enfant had in mind OR the Washington he ended up with, but he picked his poison and chose inhospitable over unnecessarily flashy and grand.
DeleteI definitely agree that the goals of what the Federalists wanted for Washington DC were much more showy than what Jefferson imagined for America.
DeleteI agree that Jefferson may have been disappointed with the way DC turned out, but I don't think it was the worst case scenario for him.
DeleteI agree. Judging from the image, the city didn't seem to match up with Jefferson's localist views.
DeleteI agree, since Jefferson was a staunch localist. He must have been quite disappointed with the way DC ended up once complete since it was far too flashy, in his opinion.
DeleteI agree, it did not match his vision for a localist, self-sufficient society.
DeleteIt was, however, local and small, not a sprawling city. Therefore it aligned with what Jefferson wanted.
Deletei agree, washington was just a bit too far off jeffersons actual ideals.
DeleteI agree, Jefferson's plans for Washington D.C. and what it actually turned out were very different.
DeleteExactly, he wanted Washington to show in its design American values, and I would imagine given how young the nation was the federal administration would be small enough that a more accurately rural idea of Washington DC could be created.
DeleteI think that it fit with Jefferson's ideal of a small, localized area, not a sprawling metropolis. But it is not a agrarian area, it is just poor.
ReplyDeleteI think that Washington DC is a good enough match for Jefferson's desires, even if it is not a perfect reflection of how he wants the nation to look. DC was described as unhospitable, which might not have been ideal for Jefferson, but trying to change it may have interfered with his Laissez Faire approach. Most importantly, DC was provincial. It wasn't a big city, like Philadelphia or New York, that probably would have encouraged urbanization and industrialization if it were the capital. Despite Washington DC not being the agrarian civilization that reflected Jefferson's republican ideals, I think it was sufficient, in Jefferson's mind, to not encourage urbanization.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting approach, though I don't know if I can agree 100%.
DeleteI agree with some of this, but I don't think Jefferson envisioned the capital being inhospitable. There is a big difference between small farms and town and a city that no people want to live in. I do agree that Jefferson wouldn't want to try and change it, but that doesn't mean he liked it or it fit his idea of the nation.
DeleteI disagree with you when you say that this new plan didn't encourage urbanization.
DeleteWashington DC does not seem to align with what Jefferson and the Republicans might have been hoping for in the capital. We can see in the plans for the city, and it really was going to be a city, that Washington seems very built-up and modern. It doesn't seem to have that localist feeling that Jefferson might have been hoping for. Instead, at least at that time, it was a pretty large and industrious place. I would go as far as to call it a city. Just because Jefferson worked with what L'Enfant drew up for the capital doesn't mean that he was particularly happy with it. So yes, it could have been worse, but it was still not what Jefferson was expecting.
ReplyDeleteI agree, it did not match Jefferson’s vision but it was not bad enough to be rejected completely
DeleteI see your idea that it was meant to be a city, but it did not, at least initially, become one. Therefore it represents Jefferson's plan for a rural America.
DeleteI agree. L'Enfant wanted it to be a large Paris-like city which did not fit with Jefferson's agrarian vision.
DeleteWashington DC does not align with what Jefferson expected. The modern look and feel of the city shown in the design plans does not match up with the localist aesthetic that Jefferson was hoping to see. It was also going to be a spacious and industrious city, which deviates even more from Localism. Jefferson still worked with Pierre to finalize the city, so there is probably some approval from Jefferson, but he probably wasn't the happiest with the final design.
ReplyDeleteI feel that, while DC wasn't exactly what Jefferson had wanted, it was still a good match for the country. It was very modern and showed what the Americans were capable, but it also had a lot of metaphorical value. See, the area it was built on was considered inhospitable, and the fact that architects transformed a swamp into a bustling metropolis showed the rest of the world that America was here to stay.
ReplyDeleteWashington DC did not match Jefferson's Ideal America, because he envisioned a self-suffiecent, localist, agricultural based society, while DC provided a modern, industrial society. However, it did line up a little with Jefferson’s ideas, enough so that he may consider its approval.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your point, this new plan was too industrial for Jefferson.
DeleteYes, Washington D.C. did reflect ideal Jeffersonian America. It did so because it was a *provincial* settlement, not on the level of a major city like New York. Despite being in a largely *inhospitable* location, the town represented Jefferson's dream of *localism* and a rural America.
ReplyDeleteI agree. He most likely didn't want D.C. to become a major city, or have as high of a population as it does today.
DeleteI think Washington DC did not totally fit Jefferson's vision of America. This was especially true for the vision L'Enfant had. Jefferson did not want a big industrial or fancy city; he wanted an agricultural localism focused country. The capital at the time he was president, though better than Pierre L'Enfant's plan, also didn't totally fit his vision. It was still an inhospitable provincial village rather than livable, farmable land.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, and that last part that you made really solidified everything. The capital at the time was still inhospitable, and couldn't even be livable or farmable, which would have had Jefferson's vision for the capital be not possible in the first place.
DeleteJefferson's ideas on a nations capital did not match with Washington DC as Jefferson believed in a local agrarian society, while Washington was simply undeveloped and inhospitable.
ReplyDeletei agree with your explanation onto how washington was different to jeffersons on beliefs in society.
DeleteI also agree with this, the ideas did not really match
DeleteI don't really accept that that Pierre L'Enfant's Washington D.C fulfilled Jefferson's standards. Jefferson required his nation to be agrarian, localist, and free. Appropriately, he no doubt required D.C to be agrarian, localist, and free. While I'm sure he didn't expect that the city ought to be poor or antagonistic, he probably didn't require it to be exorbitantly wonderful. D.C disagreed with Jefferson's viewpoint on America.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Pierre L'Enfants Washington DC did not meet Jeffersons hopes and what he wanted. the design of the city seems to be made up of blocks and sections, and seems to be more industrial and more like what a city today would look like. Furthermore, L'Enfant designed it to be inhospitable, and that seems to me, what the opposite of an agrarian city/town would be like.
ReplyDeleteI agree, he designed it to be inhospitable and that is not what a localist and again city would be like
DeleteI don't think that Pierre L'Enfant's D.C. met Jefferson's hopes or expectations. Jefferson constantly promoted a simple and more agricultural based America. This plan for the new capitol seems to be more industrial and city-like then to what Jefferson would have wanted.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Jefferson's ideals was for the nation and the capitol to be very rural based and self-sufficient, whereas Pierre L'Enfant's D.C. was the opposite, bustling cities and industrialization.
DeleteI agree, the two seemed to be quite the opposite of each other.
DeleteI don't really think that Pierre L'Enfant's environment of Washington D.C. fit with Thomas Jefferson's standards, as he was very much pro-rural and did not like industrialization very much. He had wanted the nation to be agrarian, localist, and self-sufficient, and thus in turn for the capitol to reflect those traits as well. However, the capitol in Pierre L'Enfant's vision turned out to be quite the opposite of that, with DC becoming very urban and similar to how a city would be, the exact opposite of what Jefferson's preferences and ideals were.
ReplyDeleteInteresting point. Everyone seems to have different views on this question.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJefferson believed in localism and wished for an agrarian society, and while I doubt he intended for DC to be so inhospitable, I think it reflects his ideals. He wanted Americans to be self-sufficient and geared toward farming, and a non-industrial capital promotes that, even though the plan for the capital was very urban.
ReplyDeleteI think that Washington D.C. did reflect ideal Jeffersonian America. Though it was not completely rural, it was quite provincial and inhospitable which made it nothing compared to the size of a New York City, for example. However, like I stated before, I don't completely think it was a rural town like a true Jeffersonian capital might be like, but it also was not a bustling metropolis.
ReplyDeleteI think that is fairly true, though I think also that Jefferson would take issue with the plans for the capital and may have wanted to take the good aspects of rural life to model the living conditions of federal workers on.
DeleteJefferson aimed for America to be an agrarian society. He probably didn't want Washington D.C. to be as inhospitable as it was, but it was very sufficient as he intended America to be. But Pierre L'Enfant's designs probably did not match up with Jefferson's ideas.
ReplyDeleteNo, it isn't. Jefferson wanted an agrarian nation with primarily small, local government. A large capital city is not conducive with this. Though the city was small and fairly remote at the time, its plans showed something much bigger and much less aligned with Jefferson's vision for America, which for me would probably have some sort of smaller property or ranch for the president and federal administration, which at the time would have been small enough to accommodate that.
ReplyDeleteI actually think that Pierre L'Enfant's designs probably did not match up with Jefferson's ideas because Jefferson envisioned a more localist and agricultural society whereas Pierre L'Enfant's designs seem to show a more industrialized and city-like capital.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, the agrarian idea fit very well with Jefferson’s point of view regarding what he wanted with a capital city. In the end, I believe it was a tremendous success.
ReplyDeleteEthan Lader
Sakari
ReplyDeleteJefferson's republican ideals would have led him to want a small, self-sufficient capitol. Pierre L'Enfant's designs were very industrialist, and would not have appealed to Jefferson. So no, i do not think that it matches the kind of country Jefferson saw as ideal.