With the American Revolution over and the Proclamation Line of 1763 now removed, Americans wish to begin encroaching upon the western lands that belong to First Nations' people. The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 set up a number of guidelines for territories to have in place before they can qualify as actual states. Look at those requirements mentioned in our readings and respond to this prompt in the comments section. If our notes missed this, feel free to look back at the textbook itself:
Which requirement to become a state that is placed upon a territory do you see as important, maybe even the most important? Tell us why you think that requirement mattered.
As is our practice, we will reply to the comments of two others.
The 60,000 person population requirement to become states is very important. This creates a system where there is are not numerous amounts of very small states who are gaining representation in political organizations while they represent a very small portion of people. This makes sure that there is organization while trying to create states.
ReplyDeleteSakari
Deletei agree, if there wasn't a minimum population then you would have small settlements trying to become states themselves, and that's not going to work
I had not thought of that effect of the the 60,000 person minimum. But you are correct that this prevents the domination of small states and therefore defends against an unfair power balance placed in the hands of states over people.
DeleteI didn't think about the ratio of population to representation before, but I agree. Clearly, lots of the big states wanted their representation to reflect their population, while smaller states wanted equal representation despite their population.
DeleteI also think this is important for another reason, if a state has a few amount of people, then out states and the government will take it less seriously and not allocate as much resources to it even though they might need it.
DeleteI like how you focus on the equivalent representation part of the population rule. I find it interesting that this rule can simultaneously protect smaller states from being dominated by larger ones and protect just representation in the federal government.
DeleteI agree. Creating a population minimum made sure that small settlements or political factions couldn't gain power in government without a substantial range of supporters.
DeleteI agree, I always thought that the ratio of representatives to population was quite unfair considering some states are more populated than others.
DeleteI agree, this rule prevented a disorganized government caused from overrepresentation of small communities.
DeleteI agree, it would be chaotic if a government was made up of many small settlements.
DeleteThe Northwest Ordinance of 1787 established basic freedoms in the Northwest Territory, specifically religious tolerance, jury trials, and even the prohibition of slavery. Without these laws, there would have been a greater divide between east and west and it would have seemed hypocritical not to protect the rights of those at the frontier.
ReplyDeleteI also think that allocating these basic rights are very important for statehood. This could create a much more unified country. I think it is very interesting that they included the part about slavery, especially considering that slavery was not abolished in the east.
DeleteI think that it's interesting that Congress was so involved in the policy of these territories, even though they weren't considered a state yet. I think Congress anticipated that the territory would eventually become a part of the US
DeleteI think that if very important. If the territories had rules that were significantly different from the states, they would either stay separate even if they became states, or becoming a state would be a very difficult process.
DeleteI like the idea of how this was to avoid division, as it seemed this was a common goal among all of the rules to becoming a state, to try and make sure the people of the frontier got the same representation, justice, etc. of the East, with this need for unity I feel might have even been considered more important than the actual niceness of the rights themselves, though that's just my conjecture.
DeleteSakari
ReplyDeleteOne of the most important things is that to become a state, the population had to exceed that of the smallest state at the time (which was Rhode Island i believe). Because of this, you could not have small settlements trying to become individual states, which would cause a lot of problems.
I agree. Large numbers of small settlements applying for statehood would slow down the government bureaucracy. Additionally, it would greatly shift governmental power to the states.
DeleteI agree. This would lead to a lot of chaos and problems.
DeleteI agree, because having a larger population in a state is more representative of the people rather than a small group of people having the same power as a large state.
DeleteYes, in the ideal American political system, states would have power, but would not overpower the federal government, or else we would have another Confederation. That was a big mistake.
DeleteI agree, they get the power they want, but not so much that they become their own sovereignty.
DeleteI agree. They don't want states that are too small because it would make congressional representation all messed up, but they can't make the smallest state a territory instead of a state.
DeleteExactly, as not only are lots of small state applications a bit annoying, but as Josephine said they would mean the people of the frontier would have outsized representation relative to population.
DeleteI agree with what you said here, the attempts at trying to become individual states would cause a lot of trouble for the government.
DeleteThe Ordinance of 1787 tried to achieve something similar to the original ordinance (which required a new state to have the minimum population of the smallest existing state) by creating a 60,000 minimum population. The purpose of this was to not develop a group of second-class citizens that were below the rest because of their small size. In the Ordinance of 1787, they also prohibited the territory from being divided into as many pieces as before. This contributed to the same goal of avoiding a hierarchy among states. This is the most important requirement that was placed in order for a territory to become a state because it reflected how desperate Americans were to distribute power evenly and never recreate a government like the one they had experienced.
ReplyDeleteI like how you flushed out how each change in the 1787 Ordinance was designed to help avoid a hierarchy in the states. It never really occurred to me before that not only did the states need to avoid tyranny from a ruler, but also domination from a few, overly powered states.
DeleteI agree avoiding hierarchy in the states can help in preventing civil wars, and oppression from larger states.
DeleteLike others have said, the 60,000 minimum population was important. This is because, at the time, states had a good amount of power, so putting a minimum for the population in the area prevented small communities from gaining too much power. In addition, having more people being represented in a sate made decisions more representative of the people in the US, as opposed to a tiny state having the power to sway a large decision.
ReplyDeleteThe 60,000 minimum population was very important, because it prevented small settlements from claiming statehood. Imagine if a few random people built a house or two out West and told Congress to consider them a state. That would be absurd!
DeleteExactly. They would rather you represent a significant portion of people rather than a small group.
DeleteI agree, you have to make sure that groups have the right amount of power and representation, not too much, but not too little.
DeleteI accept that the 60,000 rule prevented small Native American settlements from having any influence in government.
DeleteI agree with this, the 60,000 minimum population rule was very important as it prevented many settlements from becoming states.
DeleteOne of the most important state requirements was the 60,000 minimum population guideline. It ensured that smaller settlements/factions couldn't take governmental control. It also helped equalize the states by giving all of them a substantial amount of citizens, and thus representation in government.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the 60,000 rule repressed small settlements of Native American people from having any power in the government.
DeleteAgreed, if a piece of territory only had a few thousand people, then everybody would start proclaiming themselves as states, and then the government at the time would have a problem on their hands, with multiple settlements trying to take over, as well as ensuring that there is somewhat of an equal representation in states.
DeleteI agree with this, the 60,000 minimum population requirement also ensured that the nation wouldn't become as divided again.
DeleteI think that the requirement of personal rights in each state was the most important requirement in the Northwest Ordinance. Americans broke away from Britain to live in a just society with rights, and if a territory will not allow its people to enjoy those rights, it shouldn't be a state.
ReplyDeleteI agree, giving personal rights to thestates can help ensure that liberty is kept in America, and what they faught for is being preserved.
DeleteAgreed, I think it was very important that each state could have its own personal laws and rights, as life in each state differs.
DeleteThe Colonists fought for personal rights so it would be important for them to have their own settlements make sure they had rights.
DeleteI agree, and this is a mostly overlooked one, but it is still important, because these colonists at the time needed structure and order in their lives, but still at the same time needed the new rights that they fought so hard against the British to gain.
DeleteI agree with this. If personal rights aren't granted, what is the point of breaking away from Britain.
DeleteI think one of the most important requirements is the 60,000 minimum rule. I always thought the ratio of people to representatives was a bit unfair considering some states such as california have a very large population, and states like Alaska barely have anyone. It's important that they had this because it allows some sort of equal say from all of the states.
ReplyDeleteI think the most important requirement of the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 is the rule that a settlement must have a population of at least 60,000 people in order to become a state. Not only was this important because it prevented many small states from forming and gaining power, but it also forced that small Native American communities could not operate autonomously under the new government.
ReplyDeleteI think the minimum of 60,000 people required for a territory to become a state was one of the most important requirements. If a territory became a state based on size, some states would have very low populations. If there are fewer people, their votes count for more, and each person gets more representation in the senate.
ReplyDeleteI believe it is important to ensure that the land is not fragmented again; managing anything divided into too many pieces will be extremely difficult.
DeleteI think there must be a 60,000 minimum population to ensure that there aren't a bunch of smaller settlements, which would be hard to unite. These settlements would also have way too much power. In the Ordinance of 1787, they also prohibited the territory from being divided into as many pieces as before.
ReplyDeleteI think that making sure the land doesn't get divided again is super important, it would be very difficult to manage something split into so many parts.
DeleteI agree. Lots of little states would be very problematic for early America.
DeleteYes, I think the problem of unification was what formed this rule in the ordinance.
DeleteI think that the population minimum was the most important requirement. If there was a smaller, or even no population minimum then one group of people could easily gain control of an entire state. For a state to run properly it needs to have multiple different ideas and view points in it, having a big population allows that to happen.
ReplyDeleteMuch like everyone else I think that the most important change was the new minimum population requirement of 60,000 for a prospective state. This ensured that new states would be on more equal footing with all the previous states, both in population, diversity of opinion/interest, and land to people ratio.
ReplyDeleteThe 60,000-person population threshold for statehood is critical. This results in a structure in which a small number of states gain representation in government bodies while representing a very small percentage of the population. This ensures that there is order when attempting to establish states.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the population requirement was the most important change. The minimum of said requirement being 60,000. This change caused there to be equal representation between the small states. If this change wasn't implemented, there would be a bunch of small settlements, which are hard to unite, and have too much individual power.
ReplyDeleteThe 60,000 person requirement was extremely important. This made sure that the west was not split into many different tiny states.
ReplyDeleteOne of the most important guidelines that the Northwestern Ordinance of 1787 set up was that there was a minimum population required for a state to petition for statehood. I think this was an important rule, because this way, the new country would not split into many, very tiny sections, that are rather un-united.
ReplyDeleteI think that the most important requirement that territories had to have in order to become states was the personal rights requirement, as well as the 60,000 persons requirement. One cannot be had without the other, because there needed to be significant enough amount of people to be in the state in the first place, and those people needed personal rights and liberties in order to truly become a state within the rest of the already existing ones.
ReplyDeleteI agree, because if there is a minimum of 60,000 people in a state there would also need to be a number of rights that the people would need in order for the state to not get chaotic.
DeleteThe most important factor was the need to have a larger population than the state with the smallest population, in some ways more so than the 60,000 rule, as this not only guarantees there are not too many tiny states, but goes to the root of why many tiny states are bad for stability, that being that they can have outsized representation. So making them larger than the smallest state means not only are they a "reasonable" size like the 60,000 rule dictates, but specifically makes sure they have no more unreasonably outsized representation than what is already deemed acceptable.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the most important requirement was the population. The 60,000 population rule was very important because it made sure that one small group of people didn't have control over state government actions. You can also infer that the population requirement had economic benefits. Although the American currency was a topic of discussion with a lot of debate, you could assume with a population of 60,000, the state could be self sufficient with merchants, farmers, and everything in between.
ReplyDeleteI agree. The population requirement was important for maintaining discipline, and helped the US expand in a safer way.
DeleteEthan Lader
I agree because if one small group of people had power over the entire state government, it would be cause for a ton of corruption.
DeleteThe most important requirement in my opinion was the 60,000 minimum population rule. I think that this was important because it would make sure that the states didn't get too divided again, and this would help unify the nation. Individual smaller settlements couldn't get power and become states because they did not reach the 60,000 person population requirement.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Having that minimum is extremely important and it helped keep states together.
DeleteEthan Lader
I believe that the ordinances were essential for creating order in the northwestern territories. Without them, no order would've existed, and a state of mania would be present.
ReplyDeleteEthan Lader
I think that the minimum of 60,000 people was important. If there were just a few thousand people in a huge area, it would suck up all the available land. In addition, if there were hundreds of small states it wouldn't be economically beneficial to the country.
ReplyDelete